It seems clear that the Herbert Johnson shop made fedoras for the films, but from what I gather, their offerings are not necessarily exact copies. Can you comment on this? Yes, it's almost been twenty years since the crafting of the production hats. So variance in the crown, brim size, and for that matter; the materials, is not out of the question...in fact, things in the costume business generally change rather than stay the same. Indiana John

My "sources" are all on the comments and postings I've read either here on the forum, or the various sections within Indy Gear and Indy Diggs. The first site I began hitting on a regular basis for information was Indy Diggs. If you read the section on the "Herbert Johnson's Reproduction" of the fedora, its is pretty clear that Mike Davis chooses his words well so as not to insinuate that the hat you buy from HJ is an authentic and exact replica of the hat used in the movie.

To the best of my knowledge nobody at HJ is claiming the hat is anything else. They will claim that they supplied the original. They will tell you the color is not exact on either the ribbon or the felt. The basic hat they use is that for a fedora with a 5.5-inch crown and a 3-inch brim. They know how they cut and shaped the original. You get exactly what they tell you they are giving you, nothing more or less. I think the price you pay for an HJ is based more on their clientele, and not on the fact that its "the hat".

Another thing to note is that the vendors who supply the preformed felt may come and go. Historically, this has tended to be somewhat of a cottage industry, though that is changing to some degree. With the exit of a given supplier may go a specific wooden form, which may or may not have had a common shape. I believe the hat from Raiders has a very singular shape to it. The hats in ToD and LC have a more common shape to them, in my opinion. I think that is why I prefer the original Raiders hat. Remember that nobody ever thought people like us would make a big deal about this. They probably think we are a bit nuts - my wife certainly thinks I am.

Finally… The reason I first began looking into the Akubra Bushman as a possible Raider's fedora was because of a conversation I had with David Morgan about a year ago. I am lucky enough to live just down the road from his store in Bothell, Washington. He is a very nice man, and it is very easy to spend an entire lunch hour talking to him, if you're not careful. We were discussing the whips he supplied to the production company. He then began asking if I had procured the other items in the outfit. When we came around to the topic of the hat, he made a comment I had never read or heard before; he said that they actually based the original Raiders hat on the Akubra Squatter - a fedora with a 5.25-inch crown and a 3inch brim. At that point in the production of the Raiders, local suppliers in Great Britain were providing the other wardrobe components. That is why HJ was approached to provide the hat. Take that for what it is worth. The man was certainly exposed to the build up for the movie. I would take anything he says about whips as gospel. Hats may be another story. Either way, it was an interesting conversation.

On a side note I considered the Akubra Bushman over the Squatter for two reasons. First, the edges on both hats are bound, and I wanted one with a wider brim so I could cut off the area where the edge had been sewn on. The Squatter has a 3inch bound edge, while the Bushman has a 3.25-inch bound edge. The second reason was because of the relative size of my head in comparison to Harrison Ford's. He wore a 7 ¼, while I wear a 7 5/8. That is a fairly big difference in size. I therefore wanted a hat with larger dimensions to be able to get the right look on my big head. The Squatter has a 5.25-inch crown, while the Bushman has a 5.5-inch crown. Patterson

What makes the Herbert Johnson so special? If you are looking for the real thing (Indy's Hat) Then Herbert Johnson is the way to go. I recently ordered one and I was impressed with quality. Everything is the same as the original Fedora. The only thing different is the fact that distressed hats were used for the film. The only time that hat appears to be in new condition, which looks exactly like the one you will get from Herbert Johnson is when Indy is in Donovan's apartment In the Last Crusade. Compare them if you like when you get the hat it is the same. Is it worth it? Yes if you want the real thing! Yes the hat from Herbert Johnson is the original so it is indeed authentic. I have spoken proof of this ask for Mr. Richard Swales when you order he will tell all about how he made the hats for the films. Shannon

Ditto everything Shannon said. Do be sure to request specifically, however, that you would like the authentic 39mm Dark Brown Petersham ribbon-not the 30mm ribbon which will make it correct to the films. I was told that it would come with this ribbon and it didn't-somebody else prepared the order I think and wasn't aware that I wanted the Poet hat to be in the authentic Indy style. Just tell Mr. Swales that you want the authentic Indy hat and he'll set you up-you can even get initials stamped into the hat band inside which is a nice touch. Be sure to also ask them for a set of sizing pads which are nice things to have in case you're like me and occasionally shave your head-these felt pads slip behind the hat band inside and allow you to wear the hat even after a particularly short haircut. Both the initials and the sizing pads are free of charge. As far as quality, you will think you've never seen anything more beautiful in your life when it arrives (maybe that's just me!). Herbert Johnson hatters ships their hats in what is almost certainly a near-bullet-proof shipping carton, cardboard the likes of which I have never seen before-takes a good careful fifteen minutes to pry every heavy duty staple out of the edge of the carton. In short, I have two I liked the first one that much-and having a second one has allowed me to get the first one dirty and not be so careful about it and I have to tell you that it REALLY is the same make and model hat used in the films. And when you buy one of these hats you feel like you are entering a family of sorts-if ever in London and you want your hat cleaned complimentarily, you may do so, and when I told them that they sent me the wrong ribbon on my hat, they simply mailed me off some free of charge. Very pleasant people to do business with! Greg

Yes, I can only agree with everything. You can be sure to get the real thing. The felt is very high quality and can easily be shaped. But be sure to order it with the correct ribbon as Greg said. Herbert Johnson exists since 1889 and you can be sure to get a high-quality hat and like said in the previous post you can be sure to get a lot of additional service. Also you can have the lining, sweat band and ribbon exchanged if they look too worn for very little money. Just be sure to ask for either Mr. Swales (he made the hats for the movies) or Mr. Guitard (he made the hats for the TV series). I have bought it in London so I can't really comment on the shipping and packing but I guess you can be sure to get good service and enough protection for your hat. Also visit Indy's Diggs for photos and testimonials if you already haven't. So if you want a high-quality, authentic Indy hat Herbert Johnson is the place to get it. Max

What directions do you have for ordering the most to get the most accurate HJ possible? I too, became obsessed with hats and learned probably more than anyone in the western world about hat, ribbon, etc. in my quest for the perfect Indy hat. I don't know why you have had such a problem with the HJ hats. I agree, however, that even though you may order the same hat, it may come slightly different both times. My first HJ hat has a brim that is about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch shorter and the crown is definitely shorter. But my second one is a dead ringer with an open crown height of about 5 7/8 inches. I have the LC crease in it and if you look at the photos of the hat from the beginning of LC when Indy and Marcus first arrive in Venice, that is EXACTLY what mine looks like. In addition, as I have mentioned before, I think that they not only used different sized crowns throughout the films (not necessarily on purpose, but they just used what was made and supplied), but they most certainly had variations in the ribbon from the raw-edged Petersham, to the seamed edge ribbon (both of which were available in the 1930's so they are both as authentic). Both ribbon widths were about 39mm or 1 1/2 inches though. To get a HJ hat that is the best fit, first find your size. They will need it in European (mine is usually a 7 3/8 or so which comes to a size 59). Make sure this hat size is taken with your most usual haircut. Get sized right after a good haircut. Just ask to speak to Mr. Swales since he did most of the Indy hats. Specify that you would like to order the Indy version of the Poet fedora, and make sure you be specific that you want it with the exact dark brown 39mm ribbon. You will be treated most kindly at this point since you are spending money (though expect to hear something of a "oh-not-another-INDY-hat-again" tone to his voice as I think he is a little sick and tired of yanks in particular ordering this hat, but hey, what does he expect?), and you will be asked if you would like your initials embossed in gold ink inside the hat band. This is free (as well it should be the price you are paying!). You may specify what crease you want in it but with mail-order, don't expect it to come exactly as you would have liked it and you may not like how it looks when you get it. DON'T panic though. All it takes is a little bit of wear and reshaping (I like cold water to reshape since it doesn't shrink the felt) and it should get the crease you want. Ask for some felt sizing pads if they don't offer them to you. These pads slip in between the hatband and the hat on the inside and help fit the hat if you should you get your hair cut shorter, and actually help fit the hat for a while when it is new until is shrinks down to the shape of your head. The 59 I bought was tad too big when I first got it, but it shrunk the right amount to be snug enough not to blow off without leaving too much of a red mark on my forehead. When you get the hat, before you even start wearing it, invest in a hat jack (Akubra makes a good one offered through David Morgan). I neglected to get one of these for my first hat and it no longer fits me. I bought one for this new one and I keep it in the hat whenever I am not wearing it and it still fits me perfectly. Give it some tension to keep the hat's size, but not too much that it mis-shapes the hat. Believe it or not, even high quality fur felt will shrink! The hat will come with a white satin lining with the burgundy HJ logo inside. It really is a pretty hat. When you open the box for the first time, don't be surprised if you gasp in awe just a little! Sorry to ramble, but one last note on the HJ hat-if you intend on wearing it only on special occasions with a smart suit and tie, great-keep it in great condition. However, if you are just going to wear it whenever, don't be too afraid of getting it damaged. As an experiment, once my old hat no longer fit comfortably, I got up the courage to get it extremely filthy and sat on it, etc. It only looked more and more like the film hats (I don't know why this amazed me). I guess I'm just trying to say don't baby the hat; the fur felt is a lot more durable than you may think! Good luck and happy hat wearing! Greg

Does it really matter if I have Petersham ribbon for my HJ fedora? I just think everyone is concerned with the fact that the current ribbon is shiny, where the Petersham is not. The current silk version doesn't weather very well. But regardless, I'd want a Herbert Johnson with ANY version ribbon on it. Michaelson

Please note regarding Petersham:
The ribbon on the hat was NOT a Petersham. Noel (Howard) told me that the Petersham looks very much like it but the original ribbon was not a petersham and that version is not for sale anymore. He doesn't know what it was but it was neither Petersham or Grosgrain. Kenneth

Do they charge extra for Petersham ribbon? No extra cost for the ribbon; it is dark brown. Richard Swales said he is not entirely happy with its quality but it will at least match the old ribbon in size and color. It is the Indy model of the Poet (the Poet hat has 3 inch brim and the Indy version is cut to suit the Indy fedora from the movies), so make sure you specify the Indy version of the Poet. They'll know what you mean. Ask for Mr. Swales if you choose. I do. Greg

Has anyone confirmed the fedora information directly? Well, I was in London about 1 1/2 years ago but I will try to remember as much as I can. I learned most about the hat history from the conversation with that guy, Mr. Guitard was his name, at Herbert Johnson. First off I must say that contrary to other people experiences he was more than happy to help me and wouldn't stop talking. He mostly told some anecdotes about the hat. Apparently they had been making the Poet long before the movie was actually been made. He said when it was decided which hat would be used for the movie Ford himself came to the shop to try on different ones. They decided to go with Poet but had it altered to have a more adventurous look. They simply used a pair of scissors to cut the first "sample" to the now so well-known specs. In this connection they also changed to a darker ribbon which was the Petersham ribbon according to the folks at the shop. They then produced several hats which were weathered by the "prop people" (to use Guitard's words here). The real Indy hat is shaped similar to the one seen at the very beginning of LC which appears to be an unweathered one. Mr. Guitard told me that the reason why the hats have a different shape in the different scenes and movies is that most of them got out of shape during shipping and weathering. The "prop people" reshaped the hats at rough estimate resulting in the different crown and the curled up sides. I believe they took the material that was available at the moment when they made the hats for the movies so that might be an explanation for the different ribbon styles (raw-edged and seamed edge) or linings. He furthermore told me that they never used Petersham after the Indy-hats as it just wasn't so popular. That's why they couldn't supply the Poets with correct ribbon at first. But in the meantime they came up with a source for it in Spain or so which is close to the original. Not really movie-related but quite interesting, too, is that they also made an Indy-hat for Madam Tussauds (sp?) waxworks [unfortunately haven't had time to visit it]. He told me that the head size of the mannequin caused a lot of problems as the crown size would no longer look correct compared to the brim. As far as I remember they ended up changing the head size to Fords measurements. Max

What is the best way to measure my head? Well, the easiest way is to use one of those flexible, plastic clothing tape measures. It works easiest if you have someone measure your head for you. Make sure that the tape measure is snug, but not too tight. Remember, this is how the hat will ultimately fit you. Since the hat is British-made, you will need to give your measurement in centimeters, rather than inches. Professional tailors and hat shops can do the measuring for you. Dale

Do my head shape & hair affect my head size? The two things that really affect how a hat will fit you are the shape of your head and the type of haircut that you have. All heads are not shaped alike, i.e. some people have a pear shaped head, some people a round head, etc. However, it sounds like the Poet is an over the counter hat that probably is sized generically according to length around the head. If you order from Herbert Johnson you probably can ask about any alterations in sizing for the hat. Maybe they can adjust for hat size, maybe not. Another thing to remember is to properly measure your head in the correct spot. Both the Miller hats page and the Stark & League site have instructions on how to measure, and the Stark and Legum site has a metric conversion table, if you're from the States and need that sort of thing.
The way you wear your hair can also affect the fit of the hat. In general, a conservative, close-cut hair style is more conducive to wearing a men's dress hat than longer, fuller hair. One of the reasons fedoras fell out of fashion in the 1960's was because of the trend toward long hair for males. If you're going to be a regular hat wearer, you might want to keep the hair close and consistently cut in about the same length to ensure the best results. Remember to measure your head with whatever length is normal for you. As for height and weight, they will affect what will look good on your body, just like body type affects what looks good on certain people. Since you're a shorter person, it's probably true that a hat with a less severe crown will look better for you're body type. This leaves you with three options: buy the Raiders version of the hat and enjoy it without worrying about fashion sense (confidence can pull off many looks), buy the Raiders hat and adjust it like Max did, or buy the hat in the less severely crowned Last Crusade version, which is otherwise close to the Raiders style. Or you might try to get them to make a hybrid hat with a Crusade crown and the Raiders brim and front pinch. Laurie

How do you shape a fedora? OK. How you wet the felt depends on how major the reshaping is. If it a complete remodel on something that has already been bashed, you may as well put it under running water. Otherwise, a spray bottle or a wet washcloth will probably do. Wet the area you want to shape until the water soaks in. Gently but firmly, work the felt into the desired shape. If you screw up, don't worry. That’s the great thing about the fur felt; it can always be reshaped. Once you have the desired look, let it dry undisturbed, AND WITHOUT ARTIFICIAL HEAT. After a couple of hours, you ought to be able to handle it. I'd leave it alone overnight, just to be safe. There it is! Not rocket science, but as stated if you paid >$300 you may want a shot of whiskey first. Beeline me, it's a bit simpler when you pick one up for $5 at a thrift shop! Patterson

David Morgan's webpage has a section on forming or "bashing" open crowned Akubra hats. This should prove to be helpful for any open crowned hat, as the principles are the same. Click here to view. Michaelson

Do fedora's tend to shrink when weathered? Good question, when talking to a HJ representative I was told the opposite actually happens with regular wear the hat will actually spread a bit from use; however, who knows if it gets wet. The fit should feel snug but if you feel a dull throbbing in any part of your head from wearing it for a time chances are it may be too snug. It can be stretched at a hat shop one or two sizes. David

My limited experience with fedoras tells me they do shrink when you are not wearing them. For example, if you get it wet and then just put it in your closet it will probably shrink a bit, but the more you wear it the more it will stretch to the size of your head. Abner

Another thing to consider would be investing in a good hat stretcher should the hat ever become soaking wet, or you plan to store it for any length of time. David Morgan of Indy whip fame has a very good one in their catalog for about $17 if my memory serves me correctly. Any yes, all GOOD felts will shrink if they are dried to quickly, or with a heat source. If allowed to dry at normal room temperature there should be little if any problem. I haven't had any drastic changes in mine to date, but I do recommend the stretcher for storage use. Michaelson

How should I care for my fedora? I have found over the past 19 years that our fedora, regardless of make, model or material, is the very best dust magnet that we own, next to underneath our beds. This recommendation is offered to those who are not looking toward the dusty and distressed version of a fedora. If that's your bag, ignore this recommendation. Most of the time you never notice just how dirty your fedora becomes over time. The easiest cleaning you can do is to take a damp (not wet) wash cloth and lightly rub over your hat in the direction of the nap of the felt. You will be positively amazed how much dirt and dust this will produce. I've actually seen my hat deepen in color from the removal of this grime. After removing the dirt, allow to completely dry at room temperature. I've found that a very light "dusting" of Scotch Guard brand weather proofing will help tremendously in keeping the dust from returning, as well as protecting the felt in a sudden rain. If your fedora has a solid leather sweat band, I have also found that an occasion wiping out of the band with a cotton ball damp with isopropyl alcohol will remove dirt and skin oils from the surface. Once again, DAMP is the word here, not wet, as to much will allow the leather to dry out and crack. Just enough to dampen the cotton and lift the dirt from the surface. And once again you'll be amazed how much dirt you'll remove. This will keep the band clean and will actually make it last quite a long time. Don't get the alcohol on the cotton seams, as that allow them to weaken over time, but just on the leather itself. Allow to dry or to disappear from the surface (it evaporates VERY fast) then rub the surface with a clean dry cloth, like an old cotton tee shirt. You only need to do this once a month, or more if in a hot climate. Don't do this to a reeded sweat band. You'd be taking a chance of allowing the alcohol to get between the braided leather, and risk it drying out and breaking....not a good scenario there. But the reeded leather band is much cooler and comfortable, so this dirt build up problem is not as acute as with a solid band. The Akubra has the reeded band, just for your information. Michaelson

I tried to put new ribbon on my fedora, but it always leaves gaps on top. The bottom of the ribbon is tight but the top is flimsy and not stretched tight around the hat. Any suggestions? I know exactly what you're talking about with the ribbon. The trick is to put single stitches every 3-5 inches as you work the ribbon around the hat. The grosgrain ribbon you're working with may still show minor gaps on top, but they'll be fairly imperceptible. Patterson

Who made the grey fedora in Raiders? All I can repeat is a statement once made by Mr. Swales of HJ when asked this very question was this it is indeed one of their Poets, but in the gray coloring. It only seems to appear when he boards the plane, and at the end of the movie in the stair steps scene in Washington. Michaelson

Can someone comment on Gary White's fedora? I finally decided to get a hat from the custom hatter. I'm a bit of a nit-picker, but I thought the crown on my Herbert Johnson hat was a little low and it sort of sloped inward from the brim, whereas in the films, the crown is squared off and sticks straight up from the brim, if you look at it from the side. The hat is a shade darker than the Herbert Johnson version and looks exactly like the one worn in "Last Crusade" in the scenes where he gets off the boat and when the hat is sitting on the table (the scenes before it gets dirty). Not only did the hatter block the crown, but he blocked the brim as well. Another thing I noticed about it was that the felt is noticeably tougher in its feel, It is an odd thing to say, but it is noticeable. The brims 'edge' is also smooth. I have two Herbert Johnson hats, one brown and one grey, both Indy style, and the edges have sort of an odd cut where the edge straightens out. The edge on this hat is a perfect oval, the brim is longer in front and in back, and shorter on the sides, but the transition is unnoticeable. I mailed in photos and had to wait a while longer than most because the factory where he got his felt was literally bombed during the overseas crisis. he said he found a place in Austria that could provide a quality felt. The felt on this hat dries really fast if you get it wet which is something I haven't seen with fur felt before. Needless to say I like this hat better than my Herbert Johnson version, and it matches my face. I will try to get a picture to you soon, it looks nothing like the hat on his webpage, that shot is a disgrace. Joseph C. Brandstetter

Some of this information appears courtesy of The IndyFan Forum

*Many of the quotes have been edited (spelling, grammar, and punctuation) to improve clarity.